Rules discussions

[Jax Pratts]

As a way of perhaps getting our owners to be involved now as we build up to the season, it might be a good idea to have some discussions on our rules. There have been several suggestions in the last year or so that have really never been considered or discussed. I think we all appreciate the work of the admin team, but it is somewhat frustrating to have rules interpreted in ways that are not specifically spelled out in the constitution or to have suggestions for rules changes that are either dismissed or simply ignored.

One way to improve the activity is to give all owners some stake into the way we play the game. As it stands now, the admin team has discussions behind closed doors about interpretations and/or new rules and we are simply dictated to after those discussions take place. Involving the rest of us could certainly give everyone a better sense of ownership in the league and more reason to be more active participants.

There seems to be a sense that people don

[Shrewsbury Big Flies]

I think your post got cut off

[Jax Pratts]

Yeah, I love this board. We have had this problem for more than a year and have not been able to fix it or move to a new board...

[Jax Pratts]

Anyway, the main point is in there. The rest likely was not that important

[Columbus Wild]

Yeah, I love this board. We have had this problem for more than a year and have not been able to fix it or move to a new board...

The issue only hits certain users (mainly you for some reason). I suspect it has something to do with the browser you use.  I would suggest hitting preview before you hit post to ensure everything shows up. 

The fix isn't that easy. Basically the entire coding of the board has to be changed or a fresh install has to be done.  Both will take a lot of time and are risky to lose data.  That's why I've been putting it off.

Moving to a new board has the same risk.  The easiest move would be to move to proboards but to move all the data here it would cost around $20 a month to use their pro version of the software.  I'm not a huge fan of proboards and won't want to put that kind of financial burden on the league. 

I'm still looking for an easier, less risky fix  for this issue.  Until then, please use the preview button to check your posts before you hit post.

[Columbus Wild]

Feel free to bring up an idea that you would like to discuss.

This:

One way to improve the activity is to give all owners some stake into the way we play the game. As it stands now, the admin team has discussions behind closed doors about interpretations and/or new rules and we are simply dictated to after those discussions take place. Involving the rest of us could certainly give everyone a better sense of ownership in the league and more reason to be more active participants.

Is an unfair statement.  We aren't hiding behind closed doors making decisions.   We do talk to make sure we are aligned in some situations in how the rules apply.  It's hard to spell out every possible scenario that can happen in league rules.  Management of any kind does this at every level in business and politics. 

If anyone has something they'd like to discuss, or if they have a question please feel free to bring it up and we can discuss it.  There is no guarantee it will lead to a major change but we can discuss it and if there is enough interest we can look for a league vote.

[Jax Pratts]

I hear you, but I will have to disagree. I think the statement is both fair and accurate. A good example is the situation I brought up with you recently. The written rules do not say anything about players who get through their rk6 year being automatic free agents unless they are franchised by their current owner. I had not been in this situation before so I was assuming that option could be traded like any other option (and it certainly is an option), mostly because other leagues in which I play do allow that while some do not. Since it was not specifically written that you can not do that, I mistakenly though I could. The response I got back when I did trade such a player was that this type of trade has been denied before and, "I see the point you're making about franchise being an option but I and the commissioner team do not agree." That discussion took place behind closed doors and was dictated to the rest of the league and then not put in writing. When you say that management does things this way everywhere, I think you are misunderstanding that we are not business or politics. We are a collection of owners in a league. In any league, some owners do not discuss and decide things without any input from the other owners. The admin role is to do the work of the league, not to be superior to the rest of the owners. All owners should be equal when it comes to league decisions and all owners should have input in those decisions. 

As for suggesting rule changes to be discussed and considered, we have already done this. There has been a suggestion to look at the rule about trading draft picks. More importantly, the constitution should be updated to include clear direction on these things that have been discussed and decided, but not put into writing. I was operating under a misconception simply because the rule is not specific. I would also ask that we discuss that interpretation.

This is not the first time that there has been confusion over 'interpretations' of rules. Rules should be written clearly so that there is no 'interpretation' necessary. All owners, new and old, should be able to read the rules and be completely clear on what is and is not allowed.

The other problem we have is that our lack of activity and participation may lead to not many owners voting on a rule change. Simply keeping rules the same because there were not 11 votes to change it might not be the best approach. I would suggest that we both encourage more participation and also make changes or not based on a majority of those actually voting. That way, more owners might be incented to become involved in both the discussion and the voting.

I would like to have discussions on the trading of draft picks and the ability to trade a player entering his franchise year. I would also like to see the admin team go through the constitution and make sure all rules and interpretations are clearly included there. We have a good bit of turnover and new owners need to be able to see clearly what works and what does not.

[Columbus Wild]

The problem with your interpretation of the Franchise rule is you are acting as if it's only available after y2y6.  The franchise contract is available to any expiring contract not just y2y6.  The franchise contract is not an option, it's a new contract.  Due to that, what you attempted to do was trade the free agent player rights of a player.  We have not allowed trading player rights since the beginning of the league.   A y2y6 ending contract is the same as a 2020 ending contract.  You don't have options at the end of contracts accept for your contract decision options.  This has been enforced equally to all owners since the beginning of the league.  Once a contract ends your decisions are to designate a player as matching, unrestricted or you can franchise one player if you have one available.  Those are not rights you can trade.  You may disagree with this but this has been enforced consistently for 8 years and we haven't had mass confusion on this.   I'll make sure I specifically write a GM can't trade player rights in the rules to ensure there is no further confusion on this situation. 

On your Degrom situation, I posted in public why your trade was denied.  It wasn't a back door discussion between DC, Manila and I to somehow slight you or figure out a way to dictate power over the league.  You traded free agent player rights and that isn't allowed.  I understand you say you didn't know that.  Again, I'll make sure this is spelled out in the rules for future reference.

If there is a confusion about something, ask a question (most owners do).  The rules have served us well to date and this league started in 2012.  As mentioned before it's difficult to write rules that absolutely cover every angle.  There may be questions in the future on something.  If there is confusion, please ask if you have a question. 

DC, Manila and I do NOT feel we are superior to anyone.   We are using our free time to manage this league because we enjoy it.  DC and I worked together to start this league back in 2012 and Manila joined the Commissioner team some years ago to help us.  Every year we do our best to make this the best league we can for all the owners.   We're not doing this for a power trip.  However, we did set the foundation and create the idea for how the league would operate and wrote the rules.  After that the the GMs of the league read the rules and agreed to join.   So no, the rules we're thoroughly discussed by everyone in the league but you agreed to them when you joined. 

If you or anyone else have a specific suggestion or area of confusion you'd like to discuss and get the leagues feedback on, start a specific thread and start the conversation.  We have about a month before the official off season starts so now is the time.

[Jax Pratts]

I think there is a misunderstanding on my motivation here, in general. I like fantasy baseball. I like this league. I play in four dynasty leagues and three standard roto leagues. I likely have too much time on my hands, being retired, and I look for things to try to help improve where it seems there might be something. Unfortunately, I also have strong opinions. I spent a career solving  problems for other people and I have hard time turning that off when people do not want help or do not think they have any problems.

This league suffers from inactivity. I know there is some pushback against that thought, but I do not think it can be denied when you compare us to most other leagues. I play in another league with many of the same owners here and that league is quite inactive as well, though this one is a bit better. Even so, this league has had about 40 trades since January first. About 1/4 of the picks in the last two rounds of the FYPD went unused. In my other two non-PTB dynasty leagues, there have been more than 50 trades each just since August 1st and not a single pick went unused in the FYPD. One of those leagues has 24 owners and the other has 30.

Again, there is not enough activity here to change anything by discussion. The change has to come from you guys on the admin team. Not allowing a guy in the DeGrom situation (regardless of when it happens in a contract) to be traded saps activity. There are some owners who do not have a franchisable player and some owners who have extra, especially with our rule of only having one. Why not allow that trade so someone can have a very good player at a reasonable salary for three seasons? Instead we are going to force someone to pay $10,12 14M or more for him in free agency. That makes the overall league less competitive (especially since I will also get a first round comp pick). Other than 'that is the way we have always done it' I can not see a reason to not allow this type of trade. On the other hand, I have just given a very good reason to allow it. I know the sentiment is that it is not an option and the contract is ended. The contract is not ended if there is a vehicle by which it can be extended. You can call it an option or a right or whatever you want, but there is something attached to that player that allows an owner to give him three more years at a reasonable salary. That attachment is a commodity and any commodity should be eligible to be traded.

Do not misunderstand. I am not asking you to let me trade DeGrom. I understand that the rule is the rule as you have interpreted. I am asking that you guys revisit the interpretation and allow this type of trade in the future.

I am asking the same on the trading of draft picks. So many owner let picks lapse. If they were to trade them and get at least something for them from owners who will make the picks the league, again, becomes more competitive.

I am asking that you get some new ideas and outlooks in your discussions so that you might be able to consider some changes to 'the way it has always been done'. Maybe we can have a rules committee that spends the offseason fielding rules change ideas and discussing them. In addition to you guys, maybe add a couple of the newer owners who are showing themselves to be active. Let some other folks have some ownership in the league. I think you could find four or so owners who have come on in the last couple of seasons who are active and they might bring some new points of view. By continuing to do it the way we always have, we are getting the league we have always had and that is one where the haves are getting farther and farther away from the have nots. That is a recipe for continued stagnation.We are right now where PTB was a couple of seasons ago, with a few teams separating themselves from the rest. As that became more and more pronounced, there was less and less activity and it became tougher to get new owners. I do not want to see us get to that point.

I have nothing else to say on any of this. If there are some changes made to how we do things and we can encourage new ideas and/or more activity, I will be very happy. If nothing changes, I will still be here for as long as the league survives.

Thanks to everyone who has worked and continues to do so to make this a better league and keep it running smoothly.

[DC Wiffleballers]

The issue only hits certain users (mainly you for some reason). I suspect it has something to do with the browser you use.  I would suggest hitting preview before you hit post to ensure everything shows up. 

The fix isn't that easy. Basically the entire coding of the board has to be changed or a fresh install has to be done.  Both will take a lot of time and are risky to lose data.  That's why I've been putting it off.

Moving to a new board has the same risk.  The easiest move would be to move to proboards but to move all the data here it would cost around $20 a month to use their pro version of the software.  I'm not a huge fan of proboards and won't want to put that kind of financial burden on the league. 

I'm still looking for an easier, less risky fix  for this issue.  Until then, please use the preview button to check your posts before you hit post.

This is way better than proboards. Thanks to Nate we can have our own private domain and site